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Post by Cullen on Jun 26, 2007 0:12:20 GMT -5
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Post by confuded on Jun 26, 2007 2:38:03 GMT -5
My opinion is, that in some way yes. Almost all people are in some way sensitive to Psi (besides some disabled people). It might be not what Psi feels like, but like a headache (like said in the other thread). Some people might even feel it on a low level (meaning not realizing that they are) or they don't even realize that they feel it (meaning like if they feel Psi is warm and there body is always warm ). BUT, this is only my opinion based on pure theory + logic. No backup .
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The Devil's Advocate
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Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Jun 26, 2007 7:32:01 GMT -5
Logic is at least partially substantiation, what did you base your logic on? What did you see or notice that led you to conclude as you did? Otherwise it's not theory it's speculation.
I would say that yes, there are people who are not psionically 'aware' at all. I have met people who are 'dead' to reception from one skill or another of psi. I have not met, personally, anyone who is completely 'dead' to psi that I am aware of.
Psions show up more strongly (have more 'ambient' psi around them) when I scan than nonpsions. While this does not neccissarily show a difference in receptive ability, it does show that there is varrience within the human population in reguard to more than just which abilities we use. No surprise, every other ability humans have shows variation (some people are Leonardo da Vinci or Pablo Picasso... some people can't draw stick figures right.) I suspect, and now this is extrapolation/speculation on my part, that Psi is much like any other ability, there may be people who can't use it at all, but they would be the exception, just like anyone can be taught to draw, even if they will likely never equal Picasso or da Vinci. (But some of them WILL get up to the calibre of the old masters.)
~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by wolfdancer on Jun 26, 2007 9:33:41 GMT -5
True, yet I still hesitate to say that everyone has sensitivity of some level to psi. This would be like saying that everyone can see and hear. Some are born completely without these abilities and while the soundwaves exist it doesn't mean that everyone has the ability to register them. I guess people are technically still 'sensing' the waves on some level just like the skin can still be impacted by light rays even if the person can't see. Hrmm. Well, it looks like I just undid my own logic on this one. However, the ability to sense on some level would not automatically mean the ability to identify and act on or use that which is sensed.
~Wolfdancer
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Jun 26, 2007 12:11:15 GMT -5
Agreed, Wolf, and even in my example, there are some people who simply cannot draw, and do not have the coordination or conception on that level, but they are as rare as the Da Vinci's of the world. The extremes are usually the minorities.
~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by wolfdancer on Jun 26, 2007 12:55:09 GMT -5
*nods* but they exist and therefore negate the absolute: everyone or all.
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Post by Cullen on Jun 26, 2007 21:07:46 GMT -5
I also agree that for the most part anyone can be taught psionics (except in the case of rare examples) but it is harder for some than for others.
Another interesting point this discussion brings up is overlap of senses. It seems to me like there are some redundancies in senses that complement each other between the basic five we know about, why not have overlap between those and a sixth?
~Cullen
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innerfire
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Post by innerfire on Jun 26, 2007 22:00:54 GMT -5
I also agree that for the most part anyone can be taught psionics (except in the case of rare examples) but it is harder for some than for others. Another interesting point this discussion brings up is overlap of senses. It seems to me like there are some redundancies in senses that complement each other between the basic five we know about, why not have overlap between those and a sixth? ~Cullen I've done some experimenting with second sight-type abilities so I think that's an overlap. I don't focus too much into it though since I've never been able to get a perception more than large objects in the very immediate surrounding (It has a 1-2 foot range for me).
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Jun 27, 2007 10:18:29 GMT -5
The thing is, if there are people who are REALLY sensitive, there are also going to be people who are really INsensitive to psi, they also may not know it. I know from my scans that there are varrying levels of natural 'accumulation' of psi around individuals. There is an average but there are varriances up and down. And to catagorically say that is not possible for someone to be 'psi blind' is an extreme to which I am not willing to go. Some people see very very well. Some people are blind. There are people who may simply flat out not be able to manipulate psi nomatter how hard they try.
"Everyone" and "No one" imply absolutes, and frankly there are very few situations in which absolutes are appropriate. Or are you willing to say that there is and will never be one single person ever anywhere that cannot touch Psi? (Note 'never' is a very long time. And even only 'everyone currently alive on Earth' is over 6 billion people.)
~The Devil's Advocate
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alex
New Member
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Post by alex on Jun 27, 2007 21:01:51 GMT -5
I honestly think that everyone has the capacity to be sensitive, but not everyone is inherently sensitive to energy.
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Jun 27, 2007 21:15:24 GMT -5
Ok, folk. We're in D&D start supporting the 'everyone' thing. As I said before, if you're saying everyone, you must be saying every last person in the universe (this is not to encourage speculation into life off the planet Earth but that is what EVERYONE means.)
There is demonstrable variance in Psi. There are very, very powerful people. My passive range in empathy is a triple digit radius. Not many people can say that. I have met people who are blind on an empathic level. Does this categorically say there are people who are completely psi-blind? No. But we CANNOT discount the possibility, no the likelihood, that there is or will be someone out there with no ability to touch what we currently know as Psi.
“Everyone” knows what the color red looks like… yet there are people who cannot see it properly (color blind) and there are people who cannot see at all, so not “everyone” does. Everyone has eyes? Ears? Two legs and two arms? I am aware of real people who are exceptions to every single one of these statements. And it will take more than just saying “I think everyone can… whether they know it or not” to actually make the argument stick.
~The Devil’s Advocate
PS Please note: this is ‘popgun’ level of Devil’s Advocating. Also note: This was why I was recomdending caution in the D&D forum. This is the place for the more heated debates so it is advisable to think through what you are saying and have a reason for it before you post it.
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Post by wolfdancer on Jun 28, 2007 8:24:31 GMT -5
Also, please keep in mind that this is debate and discussion and not a poll. We are not taking a vote and the majority wins....we are comparing perspectives and statements analytically. Thank you,
~Wolfd@ncer~
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Post by Cullen on Jun 28, 2007 20:29:21 GMT -5
Ok, for fun, let us take the stance that 'everyone' is capable of in some way (sensing/manipulating) psi. What does that mean? Does that mean that there is some distinct part of a body, cell, or something else that allows them to? Well. If it were a macroscopic system (one which involves some form of organ-esque system) then it is possible for that system to not function properly (or at all). So, for 'everyone' to be able to do it, it cannot be limited to a single system, or there would eventually be at least one if not many outliers.
Ok, so let us look at something else: let is say it is cellular. For this to work, it would have to exist within the genetic structure of the person. Well... guess what... there can be errors in genetics too... hmm... still the possibility for outliers.
Ok... where else can we look. Some aspect of consciousness that exists outside/parallel to the body? well if that were to be the case, then the fact that there are differences in the ways people perceive psi would probably half to be taken into account, which means it is possible that someone could just have no perception of psi in this regard.
I was just illustrating a couple of counter-examples for this sorts of things, but I think it is at least somewhat clear that finding any absolute solution is not very plausible.
Personally, I'm sticking with: Probably most people have the capacity to learn, some just have natural talent, some don't. Some people are good at math, some can barely do algebra. Some people are good at almost every sport, others can't play catch. Causes can range from conditioning to genetics, and the nature vs. nurture debate can go on forever on any subject.
~Cullen
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Post by wolfdancer on Jun 29, 2007 8:43:03 GMT -5
You have a point with that and I think you are right about the varying levels of skill. I do think that /most/ people are senstitive to psi and psionics on some level. I'm just not willing to make it an absolute. But then there has consistently only been one consistent absolute in my life and it will probably remain that way until I cease to exist.
~Wolf
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xpwarrior3
Junior Member
G.I.P (Greatness In Progress)
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Post by xpwarrior3 on Jun 29, 2007 10:53:06 GMT -5
Hmmm, this is an interesting topic and one that I like since it deals on one of my favorite subjects.
I'm agreeing with The Devil's Advocate on this one. I believe that there are people who have higher levels of sensitivity than others and there are people who seem to have little to no sensitivity. From what I have seen, read and experienced, sensitivity to psi energy and activity depends on many things. Just like all other skills are affected by different factors so is sensitivity. There are variables for pretty much everything and anything, and that includes psionic sensitivity. Although I have never met someone with absolutely zero sensitivity, I've seen close, and there are always varriances (As The Devil's Advocate stated).
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