The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Mar 24, 2008 17:16:25 GMT -5
Yes, there are other "planes of existance" What you see in OBE isn't 'a plane that mirrors ours' it's ours seen through the distortion of astral energy. Kind of like things change when you look at them in a warped mirror or through heat-haze. I've 'followed' people in scan to what THEY were terming the 'ethereal' plane, and it was as I described. Now, if their idea of the ethereal was wrong so would my description be. If you or one of the others would care to help with an experiment, I'd be willing to attempt other scans. As for the astral, Fearn, you'd be surprised how many people actually concur on that point. I rather was myself when I dared bring the topic up to a few people off forum. If you'd like to discuss more PM me. ~The Devil's Advocate
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xpwarrior3
Junior Member
G.I.P (Greatness In Progress)
Posts: 51
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Post by xpwarrior3 on Mar 25, 2008 9:10:21 GMT -5
The ASTRAL is a 'gate way' region, for lack of a better term. And you do not want to go to the other side of that Someone agrees with me? How odd. I have been telling people this for quite a long time. Beyond the astral is a point of no return (cue ominous music ) so to speak. That is what I have always thought, based off my experiences. Also, I'm in agreement with DA on many things. I haven't scanned the astral thoroughly, but I have scanned it and I have attempted Astral Projection (I believe I managed to get in). I have also had multiple OBE moments (all accidental, except for one) and I've also had a run-in with what I believed could have been an actual astral being. From my experience there seems to be a clear difference between astral beings and DA's definition of a ghost, which I also believe I've come in contact with before. I'm also in agreement with what DA said about the ethereal plane. Lastly, I'd like to say that the topic of Astral Energy, Beings, Ethereal, and Projection in general, seems to me to be a controversial subject. So many opinions and ideas...
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Mar 25, 2008 10:57:46 GMT -5
But the opinions and ideas and differing observations are how we figure things out, so it's all good. Though it's nice to see I'm not the only one making the observations I'm making. If there are NO similarities in observation it's very hard to figure out what's going on. I would still like to talk to you, Goliath, and possibly 'follow' where you're going to what you call the ethereal and make sure we're talking about the same thing. ~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by hydrokinesis on Mar 25, 2008 22:21:06 GMT -5
This might be off topic of what you guys are talking about but its still is about astral beings. Have any one came across "Shadow figures". They can take forum of any shape and size. I was just wondering, because I have came across a couple of them, but they never try to harm me. They just lurk around. I heard a couple other people as well came across these "Shadow figures" as well.
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Fearn
Full Member
Formerly ILuvEire
Posts: 149
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Post by Fearn on Mar 25, 2008 22:57:54 GMT -5
Could you give a little more background information? I have heard people talk about them before, but it was usually fluff. Basically just sounds like your run of the mill astral being that chooses to look like a shadow (I'm assuming that this is what they look like when you scan them?).
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Post by goliath797 on Mar 26, 2008 19:20:02 GMT -5
Actually, the astral is not pure hell. The astral is where we go whilst we sleep. I have projected before (into the ethreal). It's a weird freaky place. Your probably thinking of a different level of the astral, there is more then one. There are the higher levels of the astral and their are the lower. You are probably thinking of the lower ones. And also, yes there is a point of no return, a certain astral plane traps you there due to the immense emotions you feel there, and you never want to leave until somebody awakens you
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Mar 26, 2008 22:53:16 GMT -5
No, the astral is NOT where we go when we sleep, or I would NEVER dream. I have too many shields between myself and the astral to go there when we sleep. That's as silly as saying everyone automatically goes out of body the minute the fall asleep.
And trust me, if you'd got even a GLIMPSE of what was actually beyond the astral you'd run away screaming. It's not a pretty place though it has all kinds of pretty illusions. It likes fanning them in front of the starry eyed to keep them from figuring out how much trouble they're in until it's much, much too late.
~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by goliath797 on Mar 29, 2008 10:32:59 GMT -5
Sleeping = projecting...theres so many people that have experienced this, people that are actually professionals at projecting, write books, Go look up robert bruce or robert monroe. And also, lets see if i do run away screaming, eh?
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Post by psionicstorm on Mar 29, 2008 21:45:55 GMT -5
If you're sleeping and dreaming, (subconscious normal activity) then you're obviously not projecting yourself across to another plane (conscious psionic activity). Goliath, all your messages have come across as saying "****, that was a weird dream astral projection"
Also, DA, on your comment about how you were scanning the ethereal, all i have to say is that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck. Duck and ethereal plane are interchangeable, because its basically an arguement of the definition of what the planes are.
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Mar 29, 2008 23:48:54 GMT -5
You make a good point, to a degree, Psionicstorm; however, I said I scanned what someone else told me was the ethereal, and I found it to be a part of the Astral, not something independent. I've also said I'm open to more experiments to make sure we're all talking about the same thing.
In this case it looks like a sheep, it acts like a sheep, it's in the pen like the sheep, but it's a wolf an a sheep skin.
~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by psionicstorm on Mar 29, 2008 23:54:59 GMT -5
Ah sorry that was a bit unclear when i was reading your post, but now that i know what you mean its clear as to what you were saying. I was mixing this up with another post of yours that was describing the ethereal as a mirror of our own plane.
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Mar 30, 2008 0:16:30 GMT -5
I'll make sure to clarify next time, and I think it was goliath describing it as a mirror of our plane, but we can sort that out off line. I look forward to discussing with you, and seeing what /you/ think the astral, ethereal, etc are, and opinions on the topic at hand.
So what is your take on Astral beings?
~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by psionicstorm on Mar 30, 2008 0:35:45 GMT -5
I cant really say that i have any credible background on them, never really having been there. Because of that, i cant really answer any questions about them, because i really havent developed my own theories about them, and i just go based off of what could exist. It could be that everything people imagine up goes to the astral, and everything that used to be real goes to the ethereal, which seems to be what i'm leaning towards.
There are some times that i get a little freaked out, because it does feel like something bad is going on, and i'd guess if it is something with another plane, itd probably be an astral being, and pretty much feels like a demon is behind your back, so i'm a little worried about protection (see energy manip thread, even though i'm doubtful that a good shield would do anything against something like this).
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Mar 30, 2008 0:58:32 GMT -5
I'm still not convinced there IS an ethereal, much less that it has that kind of tangible relationship with 'the real world'. (Though frankly since all things that exist are by definition 'real' then they'd all be part of the 'real world' which makes for some very interesting concepts.)
If you can shield, Target a layer specifically to block astral energy. It won't do much about normal nasty feelings, but it will help you eliminate the ones caused by astral nasties. (And thinking you're protected may help against the more mundane psychological phenomena.)
~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by leodragon on Apr 18, 2008 1:16:10 GMT -5
The Astral plane is nothing more than a separate plane created from the emanations of consciousnesses that arise from the brain (the mind). It is purely a mental manifestation of the physical. Any form of interactive sensing, such as remote viewing or remote presencing, is a projection of one's consiousness away from the body, but not in a completely detached state as in an OBE and often times its through this plane. In psionic activity, the consiousness or mind of the person is sensing matter, time, or other minds directly. Experiments in psi show that it can not be shielded by a Faraday cage and does not seem to be limited by distance. This screws around with locality and non locality, so there are theories that play into it being at such a low frequency that our instruments can't detect it, but, you have post and precognition to worry about. In addition to that, the dynamics of precognition seem to suggest that psi is non temporal and non spatial which implies that the consiousness itself is non spatial and non temporal. This, in a nut shell, means that the mind exist within space and time (quantum physics and neuroscience theorize that the brain produces a field of consiousness that in turn influences the brain) and outside of it at the same time. This, often times, is called the astral plane. The mind, by its very nature, partially exist on the astral plane. Astral entities are nothing more than disembodied pin points of consiousness. They are the same thing as you and me, but without the bodies. Sometimes they are a mass of thought emanations solidified into a sentient being. Sometimes they are pieces of a person's psyche. The astral is nothing more than the purely mental plane. It is the mental double to this one. Keep in mind that psi phenomenon is a direct manifestation of information moving from the enviorment into the mind, information moving between the minds of other's, and from the mind of the person into the enviornment (PK). That being the case, a mental/astral entity has all the same capability that a physical psion has, due to them being a mass of consiousness, therefore they can have a psychokinetic affect on the environment as well as various other mental affects on other's. This means that one does not have to be on the astral plane to draw anythings attention. The problem with us and other beings, is that just like us, they can occupy multiple planes at once. When one is half projecting to full projecting any aspect of consiousness, at that point, they are existing on this physical plane and another one at the same time. This is the case with entities that are multi dimensional; existing on another one and projecting into the astral/mental. Quantum Physicist speculate that consiousness may be rooted in an implicate order and therefore present in all material things. Meaning, that everything physical is also mental and vice versa. The astral is nothing more than a manifestation of this. Nothing more, nothing less. Being a psion or using psi automatically opens you up more to this level of existence (the mind by its nature partially occupies this space) and therefore puts you in as much jeopardy as if you were directly on the astral. An astral being is nothing more than a disembodied mind, in simple occasions, and therefore and can do all of the things that a psion can do and a psion can do all of the things that an astral being can do, due to us being encased minds. The division of psi and astral energy has to do with the psi paradim. The psi paradigm tries to bridge the gap between mind and matter interactions by using the concept of energy. Instead of manipulating the system directly, which is possible, one manipulates a system which manipulates a system. There has been no need for or existence of psi energy actually existing as more than a paradigm that allows for one to grasp the concepts easily. Since one is following this model, percepts are set, therefore you percieve in this manner. An astral entity understands this by nature and can completely side step a step that a person who uses the psi paradigm goes through, therefore, making them one step ahead of you. Instead of sending energy into a psi wheel to move it, link to the psi wheel and get it spinning. People who go with that paradigm have to do that while an entity/person who doesn't can simply toss the psi wheel if they so choose to. The direct mind matter interaction allows for an astral entity to be a little bit more potent versus the mind, energy/matter, matter interaction. You have to keep in mind that the mind is manipulating the energy which in turn is manipulating what you want to affect, you can cut out the middle man, which is what astral entities do most of the time. I am trying to stay away from the ethereal stuff, but psi and psionic sensory mechanisms are attuned to the mind. The ethereal realms are beyond the mind. This means that ethereal things are outside the scope of psi abilities tied to the mind. Attempting to scan the ethereal would yield minimal to distorted to no results. And trust me, if you'd got even a GLIMPSE of what was actually beyond the astral you'd run away screaming. It's not a pretty place though it has all kinds of pretty illusions. It likes fanning them in front of the starry eyed to keep them from figuring out how much trouble they're in until it's much, much too late. What?! I percieve the astral all the time and astral project on a regular basis. What are you talking about? The astral plane is composed of nothing more than what I call thought stuff. Things made from mental stuff. It is highly responsive to thought and emotion, meaning how you feel or think about it is is what you percieve. This could be why you have so many BAD experiences. It is not a diabolical alien world. In actuallity it is not really anything. It is just a big blog of mental gook that is molded and created by consiousness. I don't see why you said that anything that pertains to the astral is Hell. I love astral travel and I like astral beings better than non astral ones. This is from my personal experience.
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