imagined space-real space

[ryakoth]

When you move psionic energy through imaginary space. Like when doing long distance psi. does that energy actually move through physical space, or does it 'warp' so to speak.

[confuded]

I am not answering you question and I think at the moment no one really can...

BUT, I have a test (experiment) that you (or maybe not you) can put up:

Send Psi from one point (person) to the other and scan the 'in-between'. If there is anything there then the answer is: Psi travels through the Physical plane like any energy does; doesn't all the sudden teleport.

Did I understand you correctly? Is that what you mean by 'imaginary plane'. Because it is imaginary. How can Psi travel through that?!

P.S. While DA is not here I rest on the D&D plane hiding behind a cactus in the empty (almost) desert ;D.

P.S.2. Ooops... Am I in the D&D or Advanced? Oh no! I am in Advanced... Thought I am in D&D... lol

[innerfire]

I think he means whether it moves at a certain speed or moves instantly. Hard to tell, we'd need a relatively large amount of distance to check for sure. Like someone on Pluto It seems mostly instantaneous when sending someone a construct here.

[confuded]

Yea that is true . As far as we know a construct going as far as around the earth seems instantaneous. BUT, it still has to travel that far! It doesn't just teleport...

P.S. Corrected spelling mistakes. Sorry.

[innerfire]

Are you sure? We have no clue what it does really...

[confuded]

Pretty much sure! From what I gathered from people (not only here): Yes.

[innerfire]

Well then, can you explain what you've gathered? I'm interested to hear this

[ryakoth]

Indeed, because rather than being particles itself psi could be, pure information, which CAN travel faster than light, if not sent via patterns of particles.

[The Devil's Advocate]

Ryakoth, why would 'pure information' travel faster than light? What vessel would it take? What means would it use to move? Information has no current. It is RECORDED in many forms, but the information is not, itself, any of them. Information must have a carrier as surely as a signal on your radio must have a carrier. Information is a noun, but it is not an object. It is not a physical substance though it is very much a metaphorical one.

What evidence of observation do YOU have for this? You've posed a question on a very advanced issue but have not lent any support to your claims. What have you observed that has led you to believe that 'pure information' can DO anything?

As for Psi: It is perceptually instantaneous within the limits of our current spatial separation and reaction times. I have never had contact with anyone in orbit in order to test whether or not the 'lag time' that is experienced by radio waves may also be experienced by Psi. I have observational data that leads me to believe that, at least in some ways, it CAN BE direct travel. Otherwise how would shields work? There must be a path to interupt or the warp would just bypass, unless the shield interupts the warp itself, which leads to even more complicated questions. So Ryakoth: what brought about this theory in YOUR head and why do YOU think it's plausible? We're not going to hash out these theories for you.

~The Devil's Advocate

[ryakoth]

I may have mistakenly taken a sci-fi ansible theory too seriously here. But what I was thinking when i said information can travel faster than light was the theory that when one electron separated from another electron it is in quantum entanglement with and is rotated the other electron will follow it's rotation regardless of distance. I have looked up quantum teleportation to help explain this, but end up with no real citation aside from books by Orson Scott Card and Pseudo scientific sites that probably wouldn't be accepted, so take my assertion that information can travel at imaginary speeds as opinion rather than fact, sorry for any confusion.

[The Devil's Advocate]

You still haven't answered the question... since a substantial part of your argument is based on the opinion that information can travel WITHOUT a medium, I would like to hear substantiation of it. Please explain the quantum mechanics very carefully. It sounds to me like you're getting your terms very much muddled and that's only going to hurt your case. After all it is only under VERY specific circumstances that two electrons behave and react 'identically'. Those circumstances are rare in the extreme. You also have not stated how this connects to IDEAS traveling... after all Ideas are not, inherently electrons.

Think of how it MIGHT work. That should help you. The first step in figuring out if something CAN be done is figuring out how it MIGHT be done. Though I fear you have much in the way of research ahead of you to get some good solid 'it might work this way's.

~The Devil's Advocate

[confuded]

innerfire, i would like to do that, but i wont because the lack of a normal keyboard and a browser... really...

Scary... DA is back... *sticks his head back in the sand*

[Amaroq]

Early-ish in my practice, I developed a way of moving a psiball that I'd created to someone who I'd be talking to on the internet, and they could feel it. (If they had the ability to sense energy anyway.)

Without knowing what I was doing at first, I'd imagine that the reality before me was a wall. I'd squeeze the ball down to the size of a pin and push it out through this 'wall'. On the other side, I would imagine there is an immense blackness devoid of physics or distance of any sort. I would imagine my destination nearby, move the ball to it, and 'squeeze' it back into reality the same way I squeezed it out.

A friend of mine who's been a natural all her life told me that I "warped" it. She said two people usually do it by possessing identical cards, one moving the energy into their card and visualizing it coming out the other card. But apparently I had straight up warped it.

Anyway, I personally believe that there is an 'other' place where you can move energy through, to truly warp it.

Here's a test you can try. I have nobody to practice it with, so one of you guys can try it.
Have a friend make a shield around themselves. Rather than try to pass a ball through their shield, warp it directly into their shield, if possible, by a method similar to mine. (Or whatever works best for you.) If I were using my method, I would be sure to visualize a location that is already inside their shield before I try to push the ball back into the real world.

Who knows though, it might not work if a shield can cause interference with warping.

If a shield doesn't interfere with warping, then how can we defend ourselves from people who may strike us from this 'other' plane? Perhaps it would be possible to construct a shield around yourself in this imaginary space as well.

[The Devil's Advocate]

In most cases it's not wise to resurrect a thread that'd been dead for 5-6 months, and this is the advanced thread so thing come under a little heavier criticism here. (Note: this is just friendly advise.)

Interesting theory, except I can tell you most experienced psions have broad-spectrum shields that are hard to get through. (Not impossible) but there are certain things that by pass. Links are the primary source. A link is kind of a keyed 'door' to another person it's much easier to 'get things through' when you're linked.

Most shields also aren't fully opaque. There are certain things that 'come out' past it. For the most part constructs aren't one of them. I rarely get a construct inside my shields. Most people keep a running emotional/surface thought running dialog. Unless the shield is specifically set against projection, these tend to get out, rather than other people having to come in after them. These things also tend to 'fade out' over distance. As does the 'subconcious' range. Rather like radio reciever and transmiter. The stronger the signal the further it gets. The more powerful the reciever, the farther it can hear. The higher the combination...

Unfortunately this doesn't help with the question of ACTIVE range. I've scanned widely different areas of this planet and from widely different areas of this planet. As mentioned above, the reaction time was perceptually instantaneous. I've gotten past shields a time or two, though the only times it's deliberate are when I'm under attack. When it's accidental it's usually against someone who's not as skilled with shields as I am with whatever I'm using (usually a scan) and it took me a while to develop a 'delicacy' of touch to avoid accidentally poking holes in things as shouldn't have holes. So bypassing a shield is not a very reliable test of whether psi 'skip's location or goes straight.

Sending anything by another 'path' is still blockable. You just have to block the right path. Do you have any further evidence to support your theory? It is both an interesting accounting and a very interesting conclusion. Any path can be blocked, because there is a path. I'm definitely interested in any more observations you might have on this topic.

[Amaroq]

Oops, sorry about resurrecting a thread. I thought that since it's a forum for valuable, advanced tidbits, that it would be okay to revive the thread if I had relevant information.

Unfortunately, I don't have any evidence to support my theory of shield bypassing. I tried it once on a friend of mine who's a natural and keeps herself shielded subconsciously. I lost track of my ball while I was trying to bring it back inside her shield, which usually means I was unsuccessful in bringing it to its destination.