Psionics?

[psicry]

What falls under psionics?Like what types of kinesis,precognition,empathy,or whatever....im a noob,sorry

[wolfdancer]

psionics encompasses all conscious or subconscious actions of the mind including telekinesis, empathy, telepathy, clairsentience of various forms

Some sites include out of body experiences, 'aura viewing,' etc. these are not things that are discussed positively here though.

I'm sure I am missing something, but essentially it is these aspects of the paranormal rather than the paranormal references to ghosts or angels or space aliens.

~Wolf

[goliath797]

Um, pretty much everything that is paranormal except ghosts/aliens, like wolfdancer said.

Maybe not everything, but i can't think of any other better definition

[confuded]

Ghosts can be questionable, since we do not know yet exactly what they are. Anyway, I do not wan't this thread to go off topic .

Try wikipedoa, which gives sort of a definition...

~confuded

[The Devil's Advocate]

The catch is when we start making that kind of broad definition... you include Magick as part of psi. They're not the same, though where the exact boundary between the two lies depends on who you ask. Generally accepted psionic skills: Telepathy, Empathy, Telekinesis, Remote viewing and related skills (grouped together as "clairvoyance"), Healing, precognition, scanning, and constructs. The catch is many similar effects can be achieved by both systems. I can usually trace the difference between them with a scan. The catch is describing the difference, even to people who've 'followed' me on such a scan. Normally I wouldn't bring up Magick at all, but there's enough confusion on the issue already I thought I'd mention it. For the most part, unless you're deliberately using Magick you're probably using psionics for those effects.

~The Devil's Advocate

[leodragon]

Aug 8, 2008 1:10:53 GMT -5 The Devil's Advocate said:

The catch is many similar effects can be achieved by both systems. I can usually trace the difference between them with a scan. The catch is describing the difference, even to people who've 'followed' me on such a scan. Normally I wouldn't bring up Magick at all, but there's enough confusion on the issue already I thought I'd mention it.

There actually really isn't a difference between the two, depending upon the branch that you are speaking of. There are various models and paradgims when it comes to discussing the subject of magick, but if you compare that to the psionic paradigm, you see many similarities. Magick, in most cases, is the conforming of reality with Will. Will, in this case, is a manifestation of consiousness and therefore is the consiousness of the person creating a change in the external environment. Psionics referrs to sensing and affecting the environment via consiousness. Psionics often times uses "psi energy", the Energy Model of magick uses energy.

DA pointed out that she noticed that there is an abundance in what she termed astral energy in magickal endeavors, which from my experience and opinion is just a denser form of the same thing that constitutes psi (emanations of consiousness), so we are talking about two forms of energy that pretty much are similar in composition to the point of being identical. Much of my psi actually operates using the Astral Plane, but that is a different story. Basic magick pretty much works by tapping into the mental archetypes that exist on that plane in order to create a change. A trained psion can easily do the same thing (will not go into detail about it).

The differences between magick and psionics come when you start dealing with different types of concepts and energy than what constitutes what DA calls "astral energy" and the basic "psi" energy, however, unless you are a person that practices the really advanced stuff, typically the magickal and psionics labels are just different paradigms of the same thing that operate off of the same dynamic. In fact, most mage's actually consider psionics a branch of magick that falls under something akin to mentalist, instead of using other thing's one is using the power of their mind's.

The bulk of modern day occultic literature actually reflects more strongly the incorporation of psychological principles and the concept of the manipulation of thought forms on a shared mental landscape and so on and so forth, and I am summarizing. Any way's, I said that to pretty much say that in basic psionic's and basic magick there really is not much of a difference. The separation comes into play when you go into the higher level's and the different branches, but that in itself is something that is different than your basic magickal practices. Most of the difference's normally are the type of energies involved on different types of levels. I have long since learned how to merge the two together on their higher levels (since the two typically seperate when you get into the advanced stuff), but I rarely have need to employ those hybrid techniques.

In addition to all of that, a lot of people have the misconception of magick utilizing a particular force or energy and this is different than the one used when exercising psi (this is only true when you get into the varying branches and concepts and all of that icky stuff), when that is not true. Magick is a term given to any or a certain set of techniques which cause change in accordance with ones consiousness in the world, and what is psychokinesis but causing change in the environment with one's mind. In fact the psycho drama used in magick is designed to put one in a certain state of mind so that the things that happen in cases of normal manifestations of psi can happen. Psionic technique and practices are the same thing in essence.

To answer the person's question about psionics, was coined from a combination of putting psi together with electronics, don't ask me why they did that. Any way's, the word psi was coined by Robert Thoules when he published it in some British journal of parapsychology. It was drawn from J.B. Rhine's research, or maybe it is the other way around. But it is pretty much the study of what he termed Extra Sensory Perception, which is the ability of the mind to sense and affect things. This applies to any sensory ability which doesn't operate through the five known senses. The labels pretty much are different ways to identify what is being sensed, but the sensory mechanism, which is the mind is all the same. In other words, psionics is the study of psychic phenomenon.

[wolfdancer]

Thank you for the last paragraph which was highly relevent and thank you DA for pointing out my mistake in making the definition a bit too simple. It is a challenge to seperate the two fields in words without inflaming people by the wrong word choice.

Leodragon, my experience with magick and psionics is that they are indeed two different fields and different energies called upon for the effects. This is likely something that we will disagree on for a while, but not a subject I wish to debate (or have debated) , especially in the newbies section. If you and DA wish to try to distinguish the two in terms that can be understood by all (and I will try to join in as well) then you can take it to D&D and we can all think about it.

~Wolf

[The Devil's Advocate]

Leodragon: I'm going to have to disagree with you an a few points. Yes, Magick and Psionics can be used to achieve the same effect, but you can't categorically say they're the same thing unless conditions are met. They are DEFINED differently which means when they are the same thing which one are they? The fact that most people can't perceive all the 'layers' I can scan with 'normal scans' says something, though in detail I'm not sure what yet. It's not even a matter of pointing out 'fine details' that were missed, it seems to be a matter of breadth of perception as well, which implies there are certain fundamental differences between these 'layers' and what is normally scanned as 'psi'. Denser 'psi' should show up MORE easily not less.

Useful as those references in your last paragraph are they have a single major limitation: They do not study psionics from the INSIDE. They are all exclusively outside looking in, that means we must carefully weigh what they observe with what we, ourselves, observe. What you learn about a box from studying the outside of the box is not the same as what you learn from being inside the box studying your own environment. To get a complete picture of all that goes into the 'box' you need to do both. The other issue we have as a community is there is no common consensus and there seems to be an annoying trend of people saying "Well you just don't understand what you're seeing or you'd know I'm right I don't care if what you're observing directly conflicts with my view of 'how things work.' " It's a tangled twisty mess because I'm saying Chicago, and you're saying Chicago, but we don't know if we're both talking about the city or if one of us is calling the state of Illinois Chicago, and it's hard to narrow it down properly.

Though those tangly twisty messes are probably better for other boards than the newbies. Including a challenge: Define Psychic phenomena without employing a circular definition. (Even those august publications have a tend to get 'stuck' with circular definitions!)

~The Devil's Advocate

[leodragon]

Moving my response to Debate and Discussion
psionlinebb.proboards100.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=dd&thread=738