Psionics and Philisophy

[grandsol]

Are the two related in any way? I just came back from a long rest with this stuff, and found it harder to believe in Psionics. It's called objective reality from Ayn Rand. After I've read and studied about her, It makes me think Psionics is only a person's perception rather than something concrete. Also I've been having more doubts because when I try to make "shields," they don't center with me meaning [-> (me ) <-shield] and i find it hard to not believe it's not in my mind. Could someone give me advice, because I've been trying psionics for nearly a year (sparingly) but there was nothing but strange feelings inside me everytime something big happens, but that's just it. (I've been having these strange feeling all my life so I could say it's non-psionic related) =x

[The Devil's Advocate]

It is hard to believe, and because it is so governed by our ability to concentrate and focus it is very, very, very easy to 'talk yourself out of' noticing it. Forget believing in it! That's the biggest barrier I've seen to most people when I try and explain scanning. People aren't willing to trust their perceptions.

Now, part of this is going to be a 'leap of faith', but it's a supported one. First, many people have independently arrived at the same conclusions we espouse here. Many of the techniques have been independently re-invented. Second there are individual events that are difficult for me to explain away. They are either completely fabricated or they are true. So the next question is do you believe the story I'm about to tell you?

Let me tell you a (true) story. 2005, January. I'm in an IM conversation with a friend of mine. I complain of a massive headache. He basically excuses himself briefly from the conversation (I don't have a record of the exact phrasing he used). About 30 seconds later the room goes dead silent, and headache gone. He had put up a shield around me...

Denial is a very ugly thing. I spent 17 years in denial. I've spent 3 years out of it, and looking back the things I thought were lunacy had a much more rational explanation once Psionics was taken into consideration.

Unfortunately such dramatic moments are rare, and are actually rarely conclusive until you hit a break down point. I was there. I won't go into what was actually covered in that conversation, but there was I a time I had seriously considered the possibilty I might be mad, thanks to years of constant overload (but I didn't know it was overload so there had to be something wrong with me, right? nasty little cycle.) In my case it was conclusive because of the years of thought processes. I can go into more detail if you're interested, but I think I've said enough to get the point across: there are reasons to believe, and they are usually grounded in experience, not pure philosophy.

Having strange feelings inside you doesn't make it psionic... but it doesn't mean it's NOT psionic either. I am an Empath. I first realized I was an empath when I was 25. I first recall USING my empathy when I was 8. What happened in the interim? Well I chalked it up to having a 'forceful personality' and being 'good at reading people'. The mental static? Well didn't everyone have that? It was just a headache all that pressure inside my head. And the dual layer thought processes were just because I had an analytical mind. Philosophy, like logic, and scientific method are tools. They are not in and of themselves truth.

No one really percieves Objective Reality, (no I haven't read the book), but that doesn't mean there is not an Objective Reality there to be percieved. Otherwise we would have to be told where each person's rock is, where each person sees an individual tree. We wouldn't be able to say 'go pick some apples from the tree out back.' We'd have to define individually where the tree was or you'd have six people picking apples from six different trees because they all saw it in different places. We may not all percieve what IS in identical manners, but there is something there that is absolute. The apple tree's actual nature isn't going to change just because we try and convince everyone it's really an orange tree. The tree will remain the same no matter what we call it.

How does this apply to psionics? We're all percieving something. We don't know what it means. We don't have a word to describe it. Not one single word. Overload was like noise. The shield brought silence... but it wasn't noise. It couldn't be heard with the ears, only the mind so sound and silence are only metaphors for what actually occuring. Yet the occurance was real. There was a mental static. It went away when Cullen put what he called a 'shield' (whatever objectively it might be called) around me. There was an effect and a most probable cause.

Now are you making psiballs and shields and things? I don't know. I haven't scanned you. PM me and I'll try and arrange a bit of an experiment. But for my part. There are too many causes and effects that occur that I can pretty much rule out Analytical Overlay for, that I have to belive in psionics. My options aren't 'believe in psionics or not' but 'believe in psionics, forget the silly shield thingies, and check myself into a mental institution.' So I do understand where you're coming from, though I hope you never get to the extreme I got to!

~The Devil's Advocate

[Stony1205]

If psionics is only one's perception, surely (forbidding any mental deficiencies, which I'm sure are not instantaneous enough to cause 100,000 people to experience the same delusions) there must be something to cause that perception. Rationally that would make sense to everyone, but in Rand's view, there IS no reason why anything happens. She rejects the notion that everything has a cause.

People have used the "things happen without cause" argument to get out of the free will problem (it ultimately fails). But it would be pretty strange if all of a sudden a chicken comes out of nowhere and is sitting on your lap. Such things would be fine in a broad metaphysical sense, but Rand is not using it this way. She's using it as part of a doctrine in which to live your life (see the objectivist movement).

Her idea of "Existence exists" is invalid anyway. She's begging the question by stating her conclusion in her premise. If you analyze her meanging, she's actually saying this: "Existence is existing" , which really just boils down to "existence is". She's stating a fact and not arguing anything. Descartes pulls a similar trick with his "I think, therefore I am".

Hope that covered some things. There is a LOT of criticism of Rand's works and her philosophy, you just have to go look for it. Shermer did great work about the cult of objectivism (though he also bashes psychics, and given the information he has, rightfully so).

~ Stony

[The Devil's Advocate]

*chuckles* We are all blind men, trying to describe an elephant. What description you get depends on which part of the elephant you hold... and you may not realize you're holding the SAME elephant the guy next to you is.

It all makes me glad I'm a geologist. We at least realize we've still got a lot to learn, but getting there's the fun part.

~The Devil's Advocate, who is unusually rambly.

[grandsol]

Thanks you two. I guess I'm a see it to believe it person. I don't know if I'm even doing an ounce of psionic practice, because when I try to make a shield, I can visualize it very well ,(not the the think of a picture in your mind, but the "feeling" a shield's presence and picture at the same time) but my past experiences cannot differ what's psi and what's in my mind. And what do you mean by an experiment? ( The only motivation I need for me to fully believe that I'm doing psi or that psi is real is maybe a scan or demonstration.) I try to find other people practicing psi but I think I'm the only one anywhere =x. So that's why I lean more towards objective reality and non existence of psi. I really need to get across this block X.x

[psionicstorm]

Hey y'know just look for a pic/video of someone doing something. Theres a certain point where you can't make up stupid stories about people faking it anymore, and thats when theyre actually doing it. I'm not saying to take everything at face value, but just look around.

[grandsol]

I've tried that but it's not the same X.x. And besides, there are rarely any videos on actual psionics beside the ones at psipog and others on the "psiwheel." This mental block for me has been there for years X.x, so that's why I want an actual person =x. Psions are so rare...

[The Devil's Advocate]

They're actually more common than you think. I keep running into more and more in the strangest places. There are several nasty ones out here as well as some 'friendlies', and I'm psonically 'laying low' . The catch is psions rarely speak about it even when they think they've identified each other face to face.

And what I mean is, if we can get on line at the same time we can bounce constructs back and forth and/or i can do scans to confirm what you're doing and give you a second opinion/baseline.

~DA

[grandsol]

The problem with making constucts is that I don't really know if I can make one or not. But I'll try to see if I have time on my hands beside school x.x

[The Devil's Advocate]

The point, Grandsol, is someone scanning where you THINK the construct you think you made is, can tell you if you actually made it. It's starting to sound like you're trying to talk yourself out of even trying.

You're actually developing 2 skills here: The ability to manipulate psi and the ability to correctly interpret psionic sensory input. They are not completely independant skills and every single psionic ability uses them to some degree. The biggest block to Manipulating psi, is being able to tell that you have. The biggest block to being able to tell that you have manipulated psi is second guessing yourself into thinking you haven't.

~The Devil's Advocate

[grandsol]

I don't know if I'll be successful, but I'm willing to try -x. When are you on, so I might practice with you =x

[The Devil's Advocate]

Responded via PM.

~DA

[symphonyx]

@ grandsol and DA

Can you hook me up as well?! This is gonna be a threesome! LOLOLOLOLOL. Don't mind me I'm just kinda hyper this week.

I've had DA in my MSN for a while now but I just see her going online just a few days ago. Or maybe I just don't catch her.

Grandsol, you're not alone. Belief, most often, is fueled by perception. But then again, trying to force myself to perceive by resilient belief is what bothered me. I've been patient with this for over a year now and I still can't get my mind off the presumed fact that many, many others have had immediate results in their first week or so. I have to admit it's a matter of jealousy but I'm also compelled to believe those people might just be pretentious bastards. But there's just too many of them -- too many cases of this that lead me back to step one. There was just no way that they could have gotten that many people to play a hoax like this. I'm not discounting possibilities though, but I've really been hopeless. I'd be really saddened if I remind myself that I wasted all that time for nothing, in which I don't. It's my only motivation left. I hate leaving empty-handed. I actually just roam these boards to look for someone who can actually help me in their free time or readings that are worth my time.

[grandsol]

I haven't received a reply but I think it's a good idea =). I have another question about psi.

- Is psionics in any relation to spirits? If I really do become more aware of spirits and entities, I'm afraid that it will affect my perception of the real world. Seeing or feeling entities near you and your friends isn't really comfortable. -It's also one of my major mental blocks.

[The Devil's Advocate]

To a degree you may become more aware of such things. Not everyone is. Most 'spirits and entities' aren't psi, so don't register on that score (I won't say NONE are but that's a much longer story.) Most of the ones I've run into are Astral, which takes a bit of work to learn how to scan using psi. I can think of ONCE in my time of using psi (realizing it or not) that I picked up 'other entities' with psi before I picked them up with Empathy. You'll be fine.

On a side note. Psi will affect your perception of the real world, it's something you have to deal with. If you have a natural knack for something and are using it without realizing it, psi already has shaped your world view to some extent. Take a deep breath and don't worry about it. Everything in life affects how you view the real world. You learn, you grow, you re-evaluate.

~The Devil's Advocate