Post by leodragon on Aug 10, 2008 0:02:55 GMT -5
From:
psionlinebb.proboards100.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=newbies&thread=732&page=1
Leodragon: I'm going to have to disagree with you an a few points. Yes, Magick and Psionics can be used to achieve the same effect, but you can't categorically say they're the same thing unless conditions are met. They are DEFINED differently which means when they are the same thing which one are they? The fact that most people can't perceive all the 'layers' I can scan with 'normal scans' says something, though in detail I'm not sure what yet. It's not even a matter of pointing out 'fine details' that were missed, it seems to be a matter of breadth of perception as well, which implies there are certain fundamental differences between these 'layers' and what is normally scanned as 'psi'. Denser 'psi' should show up MORE easily not less.
I understand very well what you are saying and somewhat agree. It depends on the branch that you are looking at. There are many different forms of what people would call "magick" and they vary in a lot of cases. I was comparing the basic Energetic model that pretty much uses the same type as psionics. I am not sure how deeply I can touch on this, but most circles would agree that there are different manifestations of different planes. Psionics, psi, or whatever you want to call it works through the mental sphere or manifestation of influence, since it is a by product of or directly connected to the mind. That being the case, it is limited to that sphere and therefore restricted. What lies beyond it is beyond its ability to sense.
I am not sure how deep into this I can go without getting in trouble, so if I touch to deeply on it, I am sorry. I wouldn't take offense if I was scolded or it edited, I just don't know how to explain my point in any other way.
The variations depend on branch, style, and personal preference of the person. For example, I am a form of a Chaote, which stands for Chaos magician. A lot of the techniques that are employed are through manipulation of psychology and what are called thought forms. They are normally are non sentient deployments of pieces of the person's psyche or sentient bits of it. In this case, a person is doing nothing more than manipulating mental constructs or thought forms. Some like to define it as the unconscious mind some like to define it as the collective consiousness some like to define it as the astral, but they are manifestations that take form on the astral and are manipulated. That is probably why you sense astral energy when dealing with certain things like that. In my dealings I have come to find that psi and what you called astral energy are two forms of the same thing, therefore, the psion and the mage that deals in that form are essentially manipulating the same things. Chaotes typically shift their paradigm as one see's fit and pretty much follows the concept of meta belief, meaning whatever works it fine by them.
The differences become apparent when you start dealing with the branches which use a different type of energy than what you could term mental or psi or astral or anything of that nature. For example, if you get involved with let's say the type that the Heremtic or Kermetic order's practice like Maat or Enochian or when you start dealing with systems with Eastern backgrounds. The Hermetic order's typically deal with the 30 aethry's, which is a hierarchy of various planes. They deal with pulling energy from or entering those planes, which are essentially different than what you could call the mental level of manifestation and would be of a different energy source than let's say a person, like myself, who manipulated thought forms or a psion who uses the power of the mind to pull off certain feats.
I am not sure if you are familiar with the Thelemite's who were heavily influenced by Alister Crowley and follow variations of his Book of Law. They defined it as any change in the world according to Will. For example, I wish to walk. It is my Will to walk. I will my limbs to move, therefore, it is magick:
It is my Will to inform the World of certain facts within my knowledge. I therefore take “magickal weapons”, pen, ink, and paper I write “incantations”—these sentences—in the “magickal language” ie, that which is understood by the people I wish to instruct I call forth “spirits”, such as printers, publishers, booksellers and so forth and constrain them to convey my message to those people. The composition and distribution of this book is thus an act of Magick by which I cause Changes to take place in conformity with my Will.
That being the case, psionics would still fall into that category still. The variations that you are sensing are attuned to whatever branch that the person is involved in and many other variables. For example an invocation of an astral energy would be totally different than the invocation of let's say an energy or being that resides in another plane that is not the astral.
Typically you have five models of magick:
Th Spiritual
The Energetic
The Psychological
The Information
The Meta
The Energetic model and the Psychological model would encompass magick and psionics on that level. On that level they would be one in the same (taking into account that the energy that the magician is using at that time is the same as the psion), but let us take some who focuses primarily on the spiritual model. That would be of a different type than a person who uses the other method.
Whether or not they are the same or different at the point of usage depends on the style and the branch. I specialize in a branch that involves manipulation of thought forms, basic psychology, and astral concepts. In my training and experience as both a mage and a psion, I see almost identical properties between the two on that level.
I hope I didn't go too in depth, and if my post comes across mater as fact this is the only absolute way, I am sorry, I do not mean to, LOL.
psionlinebb.proboards100.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=newbies&thread=732&page=1
I understand very well what you are saying and somewhat agree. It depends on the branch that you are looking at. There are many different forms of what people would call "magick" and they vary in a lot of cases. I was comparing the basic Energetic model that pretty much uses the same type as psionics. I am not sure how deeply I can touch on this, but most circles would agree that there are different manifestations of different planes. Psionics, psi, or whatever you want to call it works through the mental sphere or manifestation of influence, since it is a by product of or directly connected to the mind. That being the case, it is limited to that sphere and therefore restricted. What lies beyond it is beyond its ability to sense.
I am not sure how deep into this I can go without getting in trouble, so if I touch to deeply on it, I am sorry. I wouldn't take offense if I was scolded or it edited, I just don't know how to explain my point in any other way.
The variations depend on branch, style, and personal preference of the person. For example, I am a form of a Chaote, which stands for Chaos magician. A lot of the techniques that are employed are through manipulation of psychology and what are called thought forms. They are normally are non sentient deployments of pieces of the person's psyche or sentient bits of it. In this case, a person is doing nothing more than manipulating mental constructs or thought forms. Some like to define it as the unconscious mind some like to define it as the collective consiousness some like to define it as the astral, but they are manifestations that take form on the astral and are manipulated. That is probably why you sense astral energy when dealing with certain things like that. In my dealings I have come to find that psi and what you called astral energy are two forms of the same thing, therefore, the psion and the mage that deals in that form are essentially manipulating the same things. Chaotes typically shift their paradigm as one see's fit and pretty much follows the concept of meta belief, meaning whatever works it fine by them.
The differences become apparent when you start dealing with the branches which use a different type of energy than what you could term mental or psi or astral or anything of that nature. For example, if you get involved with let's say the type that the Heremtic or Kermetic order's practice like Maat or Enochian or when you start dealing with systems with Eastern backgrounds. The Hermetic order's typically deal with the 30 aethry's, which is a hierarchy of various planes. They deal with pulling energy from or entering those planes, which are essentially different than what you could call the mental level of manifestation and would be of a different energy source than let's say a person, like myself, who manipulated thought forms or a psion who uses the power of the mind to pull off certain feats.
I am not sure if you are familiar with the Thelemite's who were heavily influenced by Alister Crowley and follow variations of his Book of Law. They defined it as any change in the world according to Will. For example, I wish to walk. It is my Will to walk. I will my limbs to move, therefore, it is magick:
It is my Will to inform the World of certain facts within my knowledge. I therefore take “magickal weapons”, pen, ink, and paper I write “incantations”—these sentences—in the “magickal language” ie, that which is understood by the people I wish to instruct I call forth “spirits”, such as printers, publishers, booksellers and so forth and constrain them to convey my message to those people. The composition and distribution of this book is thus an act of Magick by which I cause Changes to take place in conformity with my Will.
That being the case, psionics would still fall into that category still. The variations that you are sensing are attuned to whatever branch that the person is involved in and many other variables. For example an invocation of an astral energy would be totally different than the invocation of let's say an energy or being that resides in another plane that is not the astral.
Typically you have five models of magick:
Th Spiritual
The Energetic
The Psychological
The Information
The Meta
The Energetic model and the Psychological model would encompass magick and psionics on that level. On that level they would be one in the same (taking into account that the energy that the magician is using at that time is the same as the psion), but let us take some who focuses primarily on the spiritual model. That would be of a different type than a person who uses the other method.
Whether or not they are the same or different at the point of usage depends on the style and the branch. I specialize in a branch that involves manipulation of thought forms, basic psychology, and astral concepts. In my training and experience as both a mage and a psion, I see almost identical properties between the two on that level.
I hope I didn't go too in depth, and if my post comes across mater as fact this is the only absolute way, I am sorry, I do not mean to, LOL.
