The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Jul 16, 2007 23:51:39 GMT -5
Kobok: I asked a few questions in the latter half of my post that were not addressed, do you have any commentary what so ever on my observations and how it might fit in to your theory, because as I see it it really doesn't.
For Psi and time: While precognition, by definition, does not deal with time in a traditional manner, does that mean that psi is outside of time, or simply interacts with time on a different level than we are currently aware of. Precognition does not completely invalidate causality, nor is it, by it self, enough to say that Psi has nothing to do with time. It actually, to me, seems to prove that Psi very directly interacts with time, or precognition would not be able to function, there would be no string of relationships for Precognition to function. (By the way this is coming from an active Precognative.)
~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by leodragon on Apr 18, 2008 3:02:34 GMT -5
Where to begin to answer? The instantaneous transmission of information refers to locality and non locality. It is one of the major problems when investigating psi. It seems to not be limited by space, time, distance, and the medium of which it travels has yet to be discovered. The Global Consciousness Project has been looking into this as well as other researcher's. What researcher's are leaning towards, and which in my experience is true, is that its the mind that plays the active role, therefore, it is the mind itself which is acting as the force that manipulates things. Beverly Rubik kind of hinted at that it may be traveling at a low frequency that is too low for our instruments to detect. Here is the problem with that, though. It does not account for such phenomenon as post and precognition, furthermore, you have the problem with quantum entanglement. What is interesting is that experiments have shown that there seems to be a link to psychokinesis and pre/post cognition. You have multiple dimensions. You have height, width, volume, time, then space (time-space). Our sensory mechanisms allow us to percieve height, width, and volume, but we can not directly percieve time. Our perception of time is based upon observing its affects on the the other dimensions that we can percieve. In fact, we actually have two dimensional retinas. The presence of two eyes is to make up for that, which allows us to see depth or volume. Pre/post cognition allows a person to percieve or throw their mind back and forth through time and observe it directly. Combine that with not being limited by distance or space and you have a non spatial non temporal occurance, which would mean that it violates or lies outside the laws of physics. Some say that it doesn't and that it is by something else and other's say it is all of them. Then you have the consciousness's affect on the collapsing wave and the quantum vacuum which exist between the electrons in the outer shell of an atom and the nucleus of an atom and all of those other quantum things that fall into place. The brain and the nervous system are nothing more than organic computers that crank out EM fields and impulses, which can be measured with an EEG and shielded by a Faraday cage. Psi has not been directly measured nor does it seem to be shielded by things that shield EM emissions. This pretty much means that psi occurances do not seem to be directly tied to the brain or nervous system. Here is something interesting: psionslair.t35.com/psiworld/mysteriouspk.html
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
|
Post by The Devil's Advocate on Apr 19, 2008 0:37:43 GMT -5
Ok, 8 months is a bit much even for a good response (which yours appears to be) for a post resurrection. I recommend PMing a Mod before resurrecting something this old again. Though since it is now resurrected, I will proceed to Devil's Advocate it. Because you do raise some interesting points. The basic problem with the majority of current parapsychological research is it is not conducted credibly from within, and unfortunately it is not likely to be on other than an amateur scale for some time. Most people who study psionics do not do so from the perspective of a practitioner, which can be a hindrance when we can't measure psi directly, or actually measure it well INdirectly either. The faraday cage experiments actually point AWAY from psi being EM radiation: They show it not being blocked when it should be if it were electromagnetic radiation. Could you please clarify whom you are quoting and cite your references specifically since you appear to have some. Bandying about just the names is of minimal utility at this juncture. For the most part we are self taught here, and it is excruciatingly difficult to find source materiel that is reliable... even though it is possible. You seem to be going back to a lot of the Einsteinian quantum mechanics that have been superceded by things like string theory. (I will not go into string theory, I'm a geologist, not a physicist. I won't bring Cullen's wrath down on me by butchering such a thing. ) Here's the basics of Einstein: Every possible outcome is a different universe and in some universe every outcome HAS happened so there are an infinite number of universes out there each covering every possible contingency. With that argument precognition would be, quite literally, impossible. Because you would be seeing into those possibilities, and sorting through which one is YOURS in universes that haven't been spawned yet gets... interesting, and gives all kinds of paradoxes when you manage to divert the precognition. does that mean you were wrong or just that the future is maleable? Now is precognition housed in quantum mechanics? who knows. My personal theory is there is a completely separate, but related, aspect of reality we're missing. We can, with our current science we can measure length, mass, depth, velocity, acceleration, vectors, and the progression of time. Each of these are merely aspects of reality, not even dimensions in the conventional sense. The concept of 'dimensions' in physics starts taking a bit of punch-drunk elasticity when you really start getting into it. First off, the first dimension is LOCATION. (a point.) The second dimension is length (A line). The third dimension is area (a plane). The fourth is actually volume (a box.) So when push comes to shove "Dimensions" become simply what we can measure about something, at which point you simply have attributes. Which is all well and good but doesn't do much for our problem of what psi is. Let us take the attribute of 'time'. We cannot define it, any more than we can define anything else, except in terms of other scientific principles. Time seems to be referentially consistent: That is if you see two runners running side by side your perception of time is not going to change who crosses the finish line first. Now it may 'feel like' time is going differently for each runner from inside their own heads. Multiple points of observation tend to render a consistent flow of events, which is the basis for our scientific principles of velocity and acceleration, which in turn are the basis for things such as momentum, and as such the entire field of MECHANICS of any stripe. Now this leaves us several 'factors' for psi. Passive empathy has a definitive range, though it varies from individual to individual, which implies that at least part of psi can be impacted by distance. It appears to be instantaneous, but as mentioned above perceptions of time can be deceiving. It can be structured in and of itself, and it can interact with the physical world (PK, healing, and remote view most notably) as well as the mental one. You talk very prettily, but very vaguely on a lot of your quantum mechanics, and seem to gloss over the foundational principles that make much of it work. I'd like to see a great deal more support for your theory before I chew on it a little more. ~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by leodragon on Apr 19, 2008 1:05:11 GMT -5
I don't like typing alot. In fact, sometimes I make a video on youtube and post it in a forum thread because I don't feel like typing, LOL. I was going off of the research that is being compiled by the stuff that is being done by the Global Consciousness project, Yes, the Faraday comment was pointing away from EM emission (that was to say that psi could be linked but doesn't seemed to be caused by activity in the brain due to the brain cranking out EM emissions). The space and time thing is due to research and my own personal experience. There does not seem to be a limit of where I can sense this also applies to feats of psychokinesis. It seems that psychokinesis can be performed at a distance. This means that if I want to know about how someone is doing in China from the US, I can easily find out. This can be witnessed online, in fact, when people interact psionically online. I follow alot of Dean Radin's work.
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Post by wolfdancer on Apr 22, 2008 4:50:10 GMT -5
There does not seem to be a limit of where I can sense this also applies to feats of psychokinesis. It seems that psychokinesis can be performed at a distance. This means that if I want to know about how someone is doing in China from the US, I can easily find out. This can be witnessed online, in fact, when people interact psionically online. I follow alot of Dean Radin's work. What does psychokinesis have to do with knowing how someone is doing in China? I'm guessing you were referring to the ability to sense from a distance rather than the ability to perform pk at a distance. ~Wolfdancer
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Post by leodragon on Apr 22, 2008 9:12:15 GMT -5
Same dynamics. They are both examples of psi. I was simply saying that it does not seem to be impacted by distance, that much (DA had a point with the passive range of people). I was using the China example as a reference to myself. I can perform PK at a distance, but it is tied to sensing the person or object at a distance. Since I can sense it, I can influence it. That is a reference to myself, of course, I am not applying it across the board to everyone.
For me my sensory functions seem to be connected to the "functions" that allow me to perform PK (probably not the right word). I actually have a saying: "If I can sense it, I can affect it", LOL. For me, sensing and affecting seem to be intertwined that is why I put sensing and affecting something in China together.
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