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Post by wolfdancer on Apr 23, 2007 16:45:48 GMT -5
Well, I'm sorry to hear you say that. I guess results just vary from person to person....considering I kept results from the first time it was explained that way to me. I have since advanced a great deal, but that does not negate the effects of a good basic explanation. The ability to break it down is to be highly valued, even if you don't do so personally everytime you manipulate energy.
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Apr 23, 2007 16:50:12 GMT -5
And short cuts have a nasty way of short circuiting. It's a great deal harder to trouble shoot a short cut if you don't know the long way. And yes, that goes for Psi, too. Also note, "Do it yourself by instinct" (which is essentially what you said) is NOT a valid answer for help with technique. And Neveza? Cullen's article IS a concise list of steps. You might want to go back and re-read it. You don't have to use it, but when you can't be bothered with a simple set of instructions that are less than two pages long? I seriously doubt you'll have the patience to actually come up with valid techniques when you get beyond the basics.
~The Devil's Advocate
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neveza
Junior Member
I may be biased, but I'm usually right.
Posts: 91
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Post by neveza on Apr 23, 2007 18:54:09 GMT -5
DA, if it works, why stop? It's working so far. I've not had any trouble in my practices. Only reason I'm not the best is because I do not have the pateince to practice.
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Apr 23, 2007 19:00:47 GMT -5
It takes more than just practice to be the best... you have to know what you're practicing. You have to learn it inside and out. Just going on gut instinct can lead you very, very, very wrong. ESPECIALLY in psi. I spent 17 years of Hell on gut instinct.
~The Devil's Advocate
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neveza
Junior Member
I may be biased, but I'm usually right.
Posts: 91
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Post by neveza on Apr 23, 2007 19:08:32 GMT -5
Who said I ever went on a gut instinct? I just said I strip the basics and do it extremely simple. Some of my skills I've done without articles, sure, and they work. No bad experiences either. I just find many articles to not help me. They just give me a basic understand on what to achieve and I'll start playing around. Usually the most simple way of doing it is the best for me. Too complex and it'll just crumble or become too long to even concentrate on the process anymore.
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Apr 23, 2007 19:34:28 GMT -5
Yes, but the things you're claiming are complicated ARE stripped to their bare essentials, unless you're simply skipping all technique and going on gut instinct. What you are DESCRIBING is not a simple way of doing anything. What you are describing is an instinctive process.
~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by symphonyx on Apr 23, 2007 23:42:00 GMT -5
Hey, hey! Cut the chit-chat. We're not in this thread to argue about the effectivity of being "book-smart" and "street-smart" in the world of psionics. Neveza, if you want to go with your ways then fine, go with that. No one's stopping you.
Yeah. I'd still go with what DA was saying. It's kinda universal. You'll have to know the long and proper way first before you can actually create your own or find shortcuts to doing so. Knowing something inside-out will give you ideas of what you can and can't do. Take for example driving a car with manual transmission. You may know the shortcuts of shifting to a higher gear at a lower speed to save gas and have an easier drive but you don't know how it really works. So let's say you start to drive up a slope and you're on 30 kph @ gear 4 which is normally supposed to be in gear 2, or 3 at the very least. Then you start to panic because the car is choking and it dies out and the cars starts to roll down. Too bad. You didn't know the mechanics behind gear shifts and appropriate speeds. You can shift at a higher gear as long as the engine can still support the power without much gas pumped. The thing is the engine will have a hard time going uphill so shifting to the appropriate gear at the right speed when going uphill is necessary so the engine won't die. It's a bit more complicated than that but that's basically it for gear shift, power and speed relations.
Anyway...
@ DA
Oh. So the feeling of bio-feedback and the feeling of psi only have subtle differences for you? Recording the feeling on a notebook may prove a bit ineffective. It's quite hard to describe the feelings I get, let alone trying to distinguish them.
Again, I tried to practice before I went to sleep. This time though, I didn't meditate for long. Only for about a minute or two and I tried to make a psiball. I got that feeling of my hands throbing and pulsating again. This time only unusually stronger. My hands were in a claw-like position trying to form a psiball in the middle. But when I moved my hand into a straight, fingers sticking together, position; it just dissappeared. I kept the image of the ball in my head but the feeling just dissappeared.
I just woke up now and I still have to go somewhere so I'll probably be practicing energy manipulation again when I get back in a few hours.
BTW, would you recommened any good chatrooms I can visit with people that can help?
Thanks again for the help!
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Apr 24, 2007 0:00:30 GMT -5
Symphonyx. I've read your post. I'll respond in the morning when I'm more capable. either by modifying this post or replying if there's someone after me. Just wanted to let you know that I had seen your post. I'm just not in a state to give it the detailed attention it deserves.
~The Devil's Advocate
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neveza
Junior Member
I may be biased, but I'm usually right.
Posts: 91
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Post by neveza on Apr 24, 2007 4:28:24 GMT -5
Yes, but the things you're claiming are complicated ARE stripped to their bare essentials, unless you're simply skipping all technique and going on gut instinct. What you are DESCRIBING is not a simple way of doing anything. What you are describing is an instinctive process. ~The Devil's Advocate Well, maybe for those that can't think for themselves. I don't trust articles to give me the best instructions of doing somthing or trust them enough to think "yeah, this is needed" when nobody can even explain how psionics function. I enjoy creating my own techniques, I do not give a fuck, if they're more complicated than others, it works. I think it's bullshit to give a beginner a complicated instruction when they don't even know if they can make a psiball or anything. Those I've helped found results easier.
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Apr 24, 2007 7:25:50 GMT -5
The thing is they are NOT complicated instructions. And how do you know the people you've helped have found results more easily than the articles? Where is your evidence? What studies have you done? Have you actually COUNTED the number of people who have read the articles and figured it out that way? Have you actually tined it? Have you talked to everyone? Or have you simply concluded because the people you helped said it was easier FOR THEM. That it must be easier all around?
You haven't even bothered to elaborate on this oh so much easier technique. You've given NOTHING for a newbie to even try to go off of other than instinct. Until you are prepared to go into detail on this 'simpler' method. Please refrain from your claims that it's better. As far as I can tell you don't even HAVE a technique.
Also I find it rather presumptuous of you to claim that those who do not agree with you cannot think for themselves. I have analysed your statements. You have not given one thing for anyone to go off of anywhere. You have essentially said 'just do it' which in this case is invalid. He's been trying to do it, and not having results. If you're not going to post anything useful, please refrain.
~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by symphonyx on Apr 24, 2007 11:11:41 GMT -5
Neveza, stop acting like you know it all. And you like to cuss eh? Well, we don't give a fuck what you say because they're not helping, not even by a little bit. We don't care. Do what you want. Don't shove it down our throats.
Just a sidenote: you thought those were complicated instructions? Bleh. Then it's most likely that those recipes in cook books, especially the "hard" ones, are things you won't be able to pull off.
DA, just don't mind him. It's not helping either if you quarrel or even if anything comes out of your quarrel. Do it via PM if you two insist.
Anyway, something different happened this time when I practiced. It seems like I made a psiball, albeit it only lasted for roughly a minute. There was this really distinct magnetic feeling that I had when I made one. As I try to get my hands closer to each other, I feel it repelling from each other. As I move it away the feeling of it repelling from each other weakens or disappears. But the thing is it was seemingly impossible to move. It only disappeared when I changed my hands' claw position to a "salute"-like position wherein all the fingers are stuck together in a straight and pointy manner.
So I'm off to do another practice before I sleep in a few minutes. I'll post again tomorrow if there's any progress.
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TC
Respected Member
Formerly known as Yokusa
Posts: 338
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Post by TC on Apr 24, 2007 14:59:01 GMT -5
Guys, you three are all holding guns to each others' heads on this. I can see where eveyrone's coming from here, but we aren't at all helping this thread. It's going to end up getting locked and thrown into the gas chamber, after some people might have had some good things to say to the person who had questions. These threads are designed to help people learn about psionics when they read, and debates are fine. In the debates section. No newbie is going to want to come in and read all of this flaming and swearing.
Symphonyx: Your first post in this argument was directed at trying to stop this argument from getting worse. I feel that your second post sort of egged Neveza on a little bit. You swore back at him, and two wrongs don't make a right. Also, it seems you have a legitimate reason for backing up DA, which is good. But it doesn't seem like you have legitimate evidence to insist that Neveza is completely wrong either. If you don't want to help either of them, don't direct your "neutral" post at one of the opponents of the debate. That's bound to tick someone off.
DA and Neveza: I think it's pretty clear that unless you discuss this in the debates section or real time, neither of you are going to get anywhere. It's been you two butting heads for about a page and a half, and neither of you are backing down. I'm not saying that anyone's right or wrong, I'm just saying these posts don't really look like they're trying to solve the argument. It kinda looks like both of you are just yelling at each other. I know it can get heated, but I think both of you need to keep in mind that debates should be a learning process for both opponents, and that the best tactic in a debate should be putting each other in their shoes. You might find that the other person had a more logical standpoint if you actually consider the other argument.
Heh, I don't want to sound like a therapist, but I think that everyone needs to take a deep breath and switch this discussion over to debates and discussions. That way, we aren't spamming a great informational thread and we can easily locate this debate for further reference. I think if everyone in this debate calms down and are both acting in utmost respect to the other person, we'll get a lot further than all of this banter.
And Neveza? One last thing. Swearing and saying things like "Whatever I could care less" is NOT going to want to make anyone agree with you more. It just shows everyone that you're just disagreeing to disagree. If you speak respectfully to DA, then she'll speak respectfully to you. And sorry to say my friend, but you fired first. I saw the most aggression in you before I saw it in her, which means she can't help being as aggressive as you're being.
Again and as always: I'm just giving suggestions. I have no way nor do I wish to force either of you to do any of what I said. I'm merely trying to keep the peace.
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neveza
Junior Member
I may be biased, but I'm usually right.
Posts: 91
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Post by neveza on Apr 24, 2007 17:52:07 GMT -5
I like seeing the agression out of people...it's more of a thrill.
either way, I helped out this thread, but DA decided to weaken what I said. I took offense since it was helpful. Make the fucking psiball in your hands, don't do no fancy collecting in the abs or around you or anything. Just fucking have it form in the hands. That's what I was putting forth in my first post.
By the way, DA, I help around the Chatrooms of psipog(before it was archived), UPC_chat, sometimes Psiclub, and recently Psionline. I think I know when an advice works for a beginner. I always tell them to not remain simple too. I tell them to get worthy results than start doing it at a harder level.
Why is everybody saying that it's too complicated for me? I could easily do those instruction, I just choose not to as the complexity of it is too time consuming and not worthy for my pateince.
Symphonyx, seeing how you're new to this, do not make personal comments towards me as you probably do not have the experience to match me. However, this is not my territory, so I do not have much support, therefor I can't say anything...harsh back.
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TC
Respected Member
Formerly known as Yokusa
Posts: 338
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Post by TC on Apr 24, 2007 18:12:04 GMT -5
Why is everybody saying that it's too complicated for me? I could easily do those instruction, I just choose not to as the complexity of it is too time consuming and not worthy for my pateince. The only one I can see that said things were too complicated for you was you. I think I've read about ten times that you prefer the simpler way. That's fine. But you never took the time to consider that DA might have a point. Therefore, it looks to me like either you just want to argue to be difficult, or you really think that "these things" are too complicated. Either way, you dug your own grave on this one. Everyone who posted had something informational to say until a disagreement turned into a flame war. If you don't think you started it, here's a great example that everyone can see here. Who was the first one to start swearing? That's just one of the several examples in this thread that shows that you wanted this disagreement to turn ugly. That's not something any member should want. Symphonyx, seeing how you're new to this, do not make personal comments towards me as you probably do not have the experience to match me. However, this is not my territory, so I do not have much support, therefor I can't say anything...harsh back. I'm glad you didn't say anything harsh back to him. Because no one should be speaking harshly to anyone. It's in the PsiOnline rules (Yes, the rules aren't up yet, but since you're so open about how much longer you've been here than symphonyx, I'm sure you remember most, if not all of them). Respect other members. I'm not saying you're the sole one at fault here. I'm saying that right now, you're showing the most aggrivation and aggitation, so I'm directing this at you. If DA were being as aggressive as you are right now, I'm sure people might be talking to her too. But she doesn't, because she's assertive, not aggressive.
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Post by wolfdancer on Apr 24, 2007 22:34:13 GMT -5
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