seraphy
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Logic is born from the illogical
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Post by seraphy on Jan 29, 2008 6:27:32 GMT -5
I've been working on a theory about psionics in general using mostly energy manipulation; I've been trying to come to an answer on energy itself. I know that we all have it and can use it in some way, but what I was searching for was the fact of what it is EXACTLY, I mean no one has ever delve further then knowing they could use it to create psi-balls, shields, or constructs. I've been researching and doing experiments of my own and I came to a rather long thought out and possible theory. Now I don't know what any of your thoughts on religion or such is, but I came to the conclusion that psi energy may be drawn from our very souls and I am thinking of pushing this theory further, but I would like to hear others opinions on this. Does anyone think that psi energy is connected to our own souls in some way if not completely?
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The Devil's Advocate
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Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Jan 29, 2008 11:14:23 GMT -5
Religion is a very touchy subject on this forum. If the admin have approved that aspect of the discussion I will happily discuss the actual religious implications of psi. As for the 'soul' which is a philosophical as well as a religious concept we can discuss to a degree. I'm going to start with a counter question: Do you need a soul to see light? Do you need a soul to move your muscles? Do you need a soul to interact with the world around you? In all these cases the answer is 'no'. Is it the same with psi? I'm not as certain. I have several observations that could go either way on that score. 1) Psi is a rather universal field. There has been no where I have gone that has not had a bare minimum amount of psi. This, to me, implies that it is not the soul that creates psi. 2) Psi seems to 'collect' around certain individuals more than others. All people have souls, so the soul cannot be the exclusive determining factor. 3) I have noticed that psi tends to pool more commonly around certain TYPES of people. I have worked much with the infantry. The basic 'joe sixpack' style mentality does not seem to lend itself to natural psionics. Also more intelligent people have, in my observation, a greater tendency for natural or trained psionics. (Note these are NOT hard and fast rules just general trends I've picked up on. I can think of numerous exceptions but they are marked enough in my area to bear noting.) Now for the issue of the soul being required to USE psi I don't know. Do cats have souls? Cats and dogs react to psi, as do my ball pythons, in various different ways. Could you give some more details on exactly what leads you to believe the soul rather than the mind might be the access point for psi? ~The Devil's advocates, acting her name.
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Post by confuded on Jan 29, 2008 15:12:15 GMT -5
I can provide info on the 'soul' concept, but as DA said: if mods aprove it. I would really not aprove it in the place of the mods. Its li throwing Cesium into water . It seems to me a posobility that psi does have to do something with the soul. But yet again it all depends on ones religious views. I want to say more, but if i will i would brake a several forum rules . Anyways, i have many people to back me up on my religious opinion . I am talking in thousands . P.S. DA, your post was rather soft for being DA (qouting the '~' sig).
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seraphy
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Logic is born from the illogical
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Post by seraphy on Jan 29, 2008 17:02:10 GMT -5
Thanks, I do appreciate your views on this because it helps me figure out psionics a bit more. Now moving on from the question of it having to do with a persons soul. I agree that psi energy gathers around one person more than another, but I have looked into that one as well and tested it a few times. I actually found that, like you said DA, it gathers around particular types of people, but I also found a little more and this even seems to apply to myself. Even those who do have a natural ability for using psi energy, tend to lack something and I did multiple experiments using energy manipulation of course and I found that a persons own body can tend to withhold or push energy back, like it's blocking it. I also looked into this going hand in hand with a person ability to use their sub-concious and I still found the same result. That brings me to the question, do you think their might be more involved in psi rather than just energy, concentration, practice, and a persons sub-concious?
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The Devil's Advocate
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Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Jan 29, 2008 23:06:57 GMT -5
Could you elaborate, seraphy? I would like some more specifics of your observations? I actually do have some rather strong opinions on the structure of psi, but I have, personally, insufficient data to fully speculate on the origins of psi, though I HAVE to speculate on methods. If you could describe the experiments and the results in more detail it would be very helpful. ~The Devil's Advocate
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seraphy
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Logic is born from the illogical
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Post by seraphy on Jan 30, 2008 8:06:31 GMT -5
Could you elaborate, seraphy? I would like some more specifics of your observations? I actually do have some rather strong opinions on the structure of psi, but I have, personally, insufficient data to fully speculate on the origins of psi, though I HAVE to speculate on methods. If you could describe the experiments and the results in more detail it would be very helpful. ~The Devil's Advocate Most of my experiments involved simple use of psi energy with someone, or multiple people, scanning. For example, my last look into this involved me creating a psi-ball while a friend of mine, that has exceptional skill in scanning, traced the source, that being, by searching past the one creating the psi-ball (me). He could go as far as the point where I gather energy before he got what he called a "energy backlash" as he called it saying that he could feel my energy trying to work against his scan as if it was defending itself. He got a bad headache and cut off the experiment there. Another experiment actually involved just a straight forward build up of energy by concentrating it to one point of the body then letting it stray back to it's original starting point while someone scanned which ended in a failure for some unknown reason in which we didn't try the experiment again. What I'm looking for is the starting point obviously. I believe there may be a point or area in which psi-energy is formed or drawn from other than the more common ways that energy manipulation gets it. What I have learned is that psi-energy of course doesn't come directly from a person and can come from other sources, but some of those sources always come up unidentified because we couldn't break some kind of barrier so to speak.
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Post by Stony1205 on Feb 5, 2008 11:21:14 GMT -5
I'm allowing religious discussion in this thread. However, if this turns into a scripture-fest, or an evangelical nightmare, the whole thing disappears. Deal?
Try and keep it philosophical more than theological. I think you'll actually make better arguments.
Oh, and I'm getting a degree in philosophy as well as chemistry, so you'd all better be on your best behavior.
~ Stony
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Feb 5, 2008 13:52:03 GMT -5
And you and I have discussed actual theology enough that you should know where I stand, Stony. And how well I can dance that tango. I'm the one looking into Seminary after all! *ducks* After I get back from the sand box. At least a few years after I get back from the sand box. Now, here's to hoping my connection doesn't eat my reply to this one again! First I'll start with my own observations then get into some speculation. Observations: I have observed that there is always an 'ambient' level of psi. I have also observed it tends to 'concentrate' around people, and especially psions (both natural and trained). In response to several things (mostly combat and defenses in combat) I learned to scan what is commonly termed the Astral... without going OBE or 'going Astral'. I used psi and ONLY psi. Building on that I managed to 'step back' on a scan and observed a structured series of 'layers' (for lack of a better annalogy) of energy. They appeared to be of varying thickness and type, and I could not tell how many they were. I just stopped counting after a while. "Apparently Infinite". Most of them seem to occupy, essentially the same physical space, but are separate from one another equally completely. Oil and water aren't this insoluable. Psi seemed to permeate them all, pretty much universally, and as far as I have been able to tell mostly evenly. There does not seem to be any kind of 'current' indicating a 'pressure difference' though I have not gone in depth on all of them. Truthfully I've been afraid to since I have so little confirmation of this. (Precisely three people have gotten a 'look' at these layers that I know of. And one only saw something like 2 other layers.) Further personal experimentation has revealed that there are internal 'threads' or 'components' to all these things including objects within these energy layers, again that seem accessible through psi, though I don't have sufficient refinement to gather each 'thread'. They seem related to the various 'skills' in that I can empathically observe one thread/component/trait more easily than I can through a scan. These threads also seem independent of the 'layers' though not of objects within the layers. Speclation: I will caution this is rampant speculation. Psi seems, to me, to be more of a medium to affect the world around us, rather like air propagates soundwaves so we can hear. How we access this 'medium' i'm less certain. We have a physical mechanism for manipulating air into sound, but I'm at a loss for an equivalent physical mechanism for manipulating psi. Brain waves are one possibility except the term 'brain wave' is very deceptive and misleading. I'm not sure neural impulses directly could produce the needed result. Also animals can respond to psi on an empathic and telepathic level at least... so we must becareful how we work our definitions. I have yet to scan a domesticated animal that registered even as strongly as a non-psion human, not even cats who seem to know exactly what you're trying to do to them through Psi and do their best, in typical cat fashion, to make it as hard as possible. Doesn't mean I WON'T ever scan such I just haven't yet. I have also not seen a cat USE psi... react to it yes. Actively use it no. Humans have signatures, even non psions, this may be connected to their identity. Which leads into a discussion of what is the source of that identity. I would hazard that you cannot prove externals from internal (hypothesize yes). Can the painting prove the existence of the painter? I don't want to try and rehash a couple thousand years worth of 'what is the soul'. Could the 'soul' that nebulous thing that makes us... well HUMAN rather than crazy beast... be the interface between ourselves and Psi? Possible. Quite possible, given that it is that quality that we actually have failed over the millennia to /quantify/, even in philosophy. Since it is not currently quantifiable, we cannot inherently say that it's not the soul, but the same could be said about the 'mind' which is equally unquantifiable. So which is it? There is a rational component to psi, which argues for the mind... there is an instinctive component to it which argues for the soul... yet creatures capable of logic cannot all use psi, which again argues that it may not be the mind... Hopefully this is enough to at least help things along. I've got no actually full conclusions on this... just speculation. Much speculation. ~The Devil's Advocate PS I deliberately specified domestic animals. I'm not willing to discuss, publicly, yet which other animals I HAVE managed to get a psi-sig off of... Not until I've had a chance to confirm that my impressions were real not just hope inspired or otherwise my mind playing tricks on me.
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seraphy
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Logic is born from the illogical
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Post by seraphy on Feb 9, 2008 8:53:46 GMT -5
I never actually looked into the layers of energy, though I do realize they're there. Maybe I'll try an experiment of some kind. Also, I think I'll try an experiment with an animal and maybe I'll find more to add to this.
Anyway, as far as the part with psi-energy having something to do with a persons 'soul', I have made a discovery, but I quickly found it to be potentially dangerous physically and psycho kinetically, I attempted an experiment in which I focused much deeper then normal, past the point required to OBE. I got results, that I can easily say, I could feel the energy pulsing from my own body. Something bad would've probably happened if I hadn't noticed my heart had started pumping rapidly as if under intense strain and cut off my little experiment. The result was that I was exhausted, slept from 9 AM on day to 3 PM the next day, yes I became THAT tired from it, on top of that I seem to have hindered my own abilities in the process and can't even make a decent psi-ball anymore, and to top it off, I now have what seems like a construct around me at all times, but the weird thing is that it doesn't require energy at least from what I can tell, I can't even scan the thing, I'll post a thread in constructs and programming about this because I think it requires investigation. The positive results, I found a way to increase the amount of energy used by more then I can actually remember and it only took 2 minutes to do it.
Now for this thread, I'm not sure if a persons 'soul' is involved in particular, but I do believe now that there IS something. This something, I believe no normal psion can probably handle. With the energy layers, I think you're on to something yourself and if you would, I'd like to ask if you're willing to try at an observation seeing as I believe it might work. Are you willing?
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Feb 9, 2008 15:48:38 GMT -5
OBEs are inherently exceptionally (and in my mind disastrously) dangerous. They should not be toyed with, experimented with, or played with. Russian Roulette is a safer pass time. For the exhaustion, I've worked myself to that state exactly twice, though without the huge sleep cycle. (Compensated by a couple of days where I was very glad my shields had other sources of power than me because there wasn't much I could do for them.) Give yourself a rest. *chuckles* define a 'normal' psion, if you please. There are several of us here who are decidedly ABNORMAL by the standards of places like Psipog, and certainly by some of the more category oriented ones. All that aside I'm willing to try an experiment. PM me. If I do not respond in a couple of days, PM your e-mail to wolf and she'll get a hold of me. My connection is currently very whonky. This is the third time I've tried to send this out. The last 2 times my connection has been suspended for an hour for 'excessive usage' when this is the ONLY web browser I have open. I'm definitely interested in hashing things out with you, I am simply constrained by my internet and there is no way I can get better before november of this year, possibly later. ~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by confuded on Feb 10, 2008 17:32:12 GMT -5
I have looked some various things up. I have looked up: astral, psionics, any paranormal stuff and more into my religious sources. Every place points to one target: kabalah.
I really don't want to go into Kabalah itself directly. But my father knows about astral and possibly some kabalistic concepts. My dad went through all kinds of magical stuff and religions and ended up in my religion. Those who need t know what religion I am talking about already know.
I shall ask various other people, including my dad on the astral and Psionic topic. However, I am not going to directly interact with Kabalah itself (i.e. reading kabalistic books).
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Feb 11, 2008 2:05:30 GMT -5
Confuded, if I understand correctly (And my sources come out of the jewish community), unless you're a Rabi you CAN'T go into Kablah. There are a lot of New Age movements that take parts of Kabalah and twist it around into something that kind of sort of sounds like it but aren't Kabalah. I don't know a huge amount about it myself, but, again that's what I understood from my own sources.
For those who aren't familiar: Kabalah is, eh a form of jewish mysticisms. Though that is not really the fullest description. I am not a jew nor a Rabi so I don't claim full knowledge of this. I just know to REALLY get into Kabalah (not the hollywood version either!) You have to be Jewish and a Rabi. The Catholic church has a branch of people who look into this sort of thing as well. So Kabalah isn't the only place to look.
~The Devil's Advocate
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Post by confuded on Feb 11, 2008 3:55:34 GMT -5
Exactly! You have to be a Rabai, and not just but be over 40 and have superior knowledge of other books. This is exactly why i am not going to go and read it directly, but let my dad and me filter what i can know and what i shouldnt.
I am orthodox, neither reform or the New Age guys...
My dad is a different story... But basicly before he was into all sorts of stuff. I can very blury remember him describing the astral and whats on it.
Anyway, do you want any info from my part of town? I'll sort my laws myself ;D.
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seraphy
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Logic is born from the illogical
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Post by seraphy on Feb 11, 2008 6:44:12 GMT -5
OBEs are inherently exceptionally (and in my mind disastrously) dangerous. They should not be toyed with, experimented with, or played with. Russian Roulette is a safer pass time. For the exhaustion, I've worked myself to that state exactly twice, though without the huge sleep cycle. (Compensated by a couple of days where I was very glad my shields had other sources of power than me because there wasn't much I could do for them.) Give yourself a rest. *chuckles* define a 'normal' psion, if you please. There are several of us here who are decidedly ABNORMAL by the standards of places like Psipog, and certainly by some of the more category oriented ones. All that aside I'm willing to try an experiment. PM me. If I do not respond in a couple of days, PM your e-mail to wolf and she'll get a hold of me. My connection is currently very whonky. This is the third time I've tried to send this out. The last 2 times my connection has been suspended for an hour for 'excessive usage' when this is the ONLY web browser I have open. I'm definitely interested in hashing things out with you, I am simply constrained by my internet and there is no way I can get better before november of this year, possibly later. ~The Devil's Advocate Haha! I can completely agree on you with your thoughts on OBE's, more from a personal experience then anything else. The thing is that if I'm to really bring any light to my theories then I'm gonna have to dabble in areas of psionics in which I would more then like to avoid, OBE's are one of them, but I'm still doing everything in my power to avoid them. Things from the astral should just not be messed with in my opinion, I've been trying to push this fact onto a friend of mine, but he keeps asking me to teach him how to do an OBE no matter what I tell him about the dangers. Yet I myself am being just as idiotic... Someone has to to be the idiot right? What is life without them. As for resting, yeah that sounds nice. My experiments have left me really drained, but at least I've been making progress. I just hope to accomplish my goal to find the complete origins of psi-energy rather then the minimal basic knowledge of it. You're right about the 'normal' psions bit, I guess normality is what you make it really, in light of that, no one is really 'normal' in my opinion seeing that innate differences exist in everyone. I guess normality can be thought of as several categories of one base of people rather then one set group
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The Devil's Advocate
Author
Respected Member I will deflate your theories and claims with ye olde pointy stick of logic.
Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis.
Posts: 1,552
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Post by The Devil's Advocate on Feb 11, 2008 11:26:24 GMT -5
I usually think of 'normal' as the 'most common trend'. Which leaves plenty of room for many things. And I do not agree that the ways you propose will give you answers in anything resembling proportion to the risk... if they give you answers at all (I am highly doubtful). There are other ways to observe the astral and garner data about psi than OBE. OBEs rely heavily on the Astral, and the astral is high enough energy that it can actually obscure details, especially of some of the lower energy 'layers'. It also tends to well... 'leak' for lack of a better word. I'd rather go into that in PM as well. I'm collecting observations to form my own theories. I am not, personally willing to take these risks to have answers NOW when other methods are more likely to yield more complete results than I think the question of 'where does psi come from?' is rather like 'where does matter come from?' Basically the theory is it always existed unless you believe in a divine being which that kick started everything somewhere along the line. Always is a long time, a very, very, very long time. I personally suspect the 'source off psi' is the exact same as the 'source of matter'. I don't think it's GENERATED by anything. I think it's simply part of pretty much everything. Any source you can think of for Matter or Psi I can continue to ask: Well where did THAT come from? Sooner or later there's an always. The question, to me, seems to be where are we putting our 'always'? ~The Devil's Advocate
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