Yoda Theory: Fact or Fiction?

[gumby]

I've heard of somebody moving a car. Do you think they can do that with thier hands? I think belief matters..

[Agapooka]

I believe that, for the most part, we can agree that belief matters. The issue is the following: is belief, BY ITSELF, sufficient?

I am of the opinion that it is not.

Agapooka

[The Devil's Advocate]

Actually I see people move cars all the time. Put it in neutral and push. (Gotta love poor college students miss judging how far they could push Empty).

The only story of that scale, psionically, I credit, gumby, was rainsong cushioning herself in an accident, and I don't have the details on how that went. The implication of the version I heard was that she only cussioned herself, not the car. Who is claiming to move cars and in what specific context?

~The Devil's Advocate, acting her name

[Agapooka]

People have reportedly moved cars in extreme cases of stress with a sudden burst of adrenaline. I've heard of this happening in a scenario involving a mother with her child under a car. It was a rumour, and so I am not saying that it actually happened - but I am not saying the opposite either. I shall simply list factors that may contribute to making this possible.

There are several explanations for this that may build up to the reported result.

1. The adrenaline released contributes to seemingly superhuman feats.
2. The body automatically restricts how much stress you can put on the muscles in order to avoid injuries. In many amrtial arts, the concept of ki-ai is present, where one effectively extends this limit for a safe, short period of time that allows for a stronger execution of a technique.
3. Articles on PsiPog associate strong emotions to psionic manifestations...

Agapooka

[confuded92]

Its probably number 1 in most cases...

[The Devil's Advocate]

Agapooka: In cases of psionics, I'd hesitate to associate strong emotion directly with psionics (except in the case of empathy) any more than you would with someone loosing their temper and hitting harder. I, too, have heard several stories, and there have been stories run in newspapers, though I haven't found an efficient way of looking these stories up. I'd be more inclined to believe that point 3 is more related as a cause for point 1 in effects above and beyond what mood does 'normally' to any activity.

As for the effectiveness of the shout in martial arts? If I have to shout to get everything out of a strike I'm doing something wrong. If I'm depending on a strike to take you down, I'm doing something wrong. Point 2 is more infavor of belief than skill.

~The Devil's Advocate

[Agapooka]

Ki-ai is not always a shout. There is such a thing as silent ki-ai. There is even a martial called kiaijutsu. I, in fact, believe that ki (or chi as others may call it) is the same thing as psi.

One may relate it to biofeedback, as it is using psionics to overcome the barrier that our body/mind puts on the amount of stress we can put our own muscles through. This barrier exists to keep us safe, but when one does a ki-ai, he or she removes or overcomes this barrier for a time that is short enough to be considered safe.

If this is actually biofeedback, I do not know, but based on how I understand it, it seems to fit.

Agapooka

[jaci]

Da maybe I misinterperated you, but although I would be hesitant to attribute a lot of the type of stories agapooka was talking about to psi ability, I think that the emotional state of someone can have a definate effect on psi abilities. Obviously empathy is one as you said, however as another example I can think of is pk (geisting associated with things like stress). I suspect emotion can sometimes disrupt normal control or increase the effect (within limits) of some abilities under particular circumstances.

[Requisite]

I cannot resist the urge to post on this topic, and conveniently enough for me, I need not do much writing. Allow me to first quote myself:

To believe is meaningless. I can believe that a boat exists. In fact, I can believe that the boat will hold my weight, but whether the boat floats or not is of no consequence. Until I make that first step, until I step onto that boat, I am lacking faith in every respect. To have faith is to trust and to trust is to have faith. I have faith when I step onto that boat and put my life into its hands. To do this is to not only believe, but to put that belief to action - faith.

And now allow me to give a much longer quote from a close friend:

Belief, what a topic that is. Often times on Online Energy Communities, you'll get that one random bozo who parades around telling people to believe this and that and you'll be able to do something, or, rather, if you don't believe than you won't be able to....Then you have the debates about whether belief is even needed.

I can believe...that this book...will move. In fact...I have a 100% certainty that this book, right here, right now, will fly across my desk and knock over my orange soda. I can squint my face, and believe all day that this book will move. But that, in no way, shape, or form, will get my desired movement.

This is because...belief is no more than feeling very confident about an idea, an assumption, an opinion. This does not give the oomph needed to move an object. Ideas are often times no more than unfulfilled desires, hypothesis', blueprints.

The word people were looking for is "Faith." Faith, my friends, is an incontestable, incomprehensible feeling...You have faith that you will take your next breath. You have faith that you will blink when needed...You do not "believe" that your fingers will move...because you do not need to believe; you know they will. This unconditional, indescribable knowing is the best words can do in describing what Faith truly is.

You are discussing the first option of, "Is it enough to believe, and you could, with "enough belief", fly?" I propose option three, the truest of all options, "Is it enough to have faith?".

Believing almost never gets you anywhere in the practice of psi. Faith, however, is key. Keep in mind that faith isn't even a deep belief within the depths of your being; faith, believe it or not, extends even further than that. Faith is belief in action, deep within your self, that serves as an indescribable "feeling". With this may great feats of psi be performed. This faith, however, is of no easy task to achieve.

I may say, additionally, that for those of you who have practiced kinesis to the point of, say, rolling pens: You have probably noticed that the pen moved almost on its own. That when it moved, you fully expected it to move, and there was a distinct "feeling" within yourself as it seemingly moved on its own. There were no bloody noses and extreme pressure, it simply "moves". The time of headaches is the time of it NOT moving, but once it moves, it simply "moves". This is the faith, the true faith deep within you, causing the object to obey by natural principles and laws of nature (kinesis).

Now we still cannot ignore the need for skill, however. Even with faith, one must learn HOW to perform said task. However, learning the "how" is rather simple and takes mere weeks on average. Once faith is obtained, however, which may take years, only then, with the required energy, does the object of sizes far greater than your current beliefs simply move.

You see, from personal experience I can say that when an object is moved kinetically by conscious will, when faith is in action rather than belief, no thought comes to surface. Faith is deeper than thoughts. Look at your arm, then move it. Snap your fingers. Did you think, "Now I must snap my fingers," and then do so slowly and deliberately? No, you simply "did" it, and the act was done before any true thought of doing so occurred. This is faith. When I successfully move an object kinetically I do not think even think of where I want it to move. When operating under belief I plan out my steps, where it will move, I gather the energy, and attempt to move it (unsuccessfully most of the time). Most should know of what I speak.

However, when I move the object successfully (when acting on faith), I am in such a deep state of meditation that my doubts are nonexistent and my faith is in full bloom. I do not even have the thought of where to move it, it simply moves. In fact, I realize what I just did after its movement, just like the movement of your hand. When moving objects, strive for a faith that is not surprised by movement, just as you are not clapping in surprised bedazzlement because your eyes are functioning in accordance with your will.

These are my thoughts, however, presented as fact, and I add this disclaimer as protection against the infamous *bap* of the DA.


Namaste

[The Devil's Advocate]

Jaci: You didn't missunderstand. I tried to keep things shorter and wound up misstyping. I meant the causes of 1 and 3 would be the same biologically. The adrenaline rush, etc. My appologies.

Requisite: Interesting linguistic differentiation.

~The Devil's Advocate